Tag Archives: Modern Barbet

Breeding between the lines..

Reading…between the lines to learn..!!

For all of you who do not speak French, or read it…It is very hard to understand what has been going on in the Barbet organized world  since the 1980’s (or even before, really). I can also understand that many have this “rise above” attitude or  “go with the flow”..and stay away from the “nastiness”.

This letter is a fine example to read between the lines.  To do so, you need to have a lot of background information and not many have it. Do you? Who was your source? That will also make a difference.

Anyway, right now I will give you some insight into how it went. 1 example for now as a teaser.

A breeder and secretary of the Club des Amis du Barbet writes to the SCC to complain about the pdt of the Club du Barbet’s behaviour vis à vis future buyers of Barbet pups from sources in the “enemy camp”. Who is the enemy camp?

It’s about the attitude of JC Hermans, pdt of the club du Barbet. He claims a litter as being of ” bad quality” when he has not even seen the litter…and they ARE>>> SCC registered!

In the second paragraph, he describes the SCC registered litter of another person   as of “not good quality”. The parents should have never been confirmed and the owners never even showed them. Says he.

Well, they did and there is proof.

JCHermans is questioning the competences of SCC judges.

People kept calling the writer of the letter to complain to her, or they wrote to her by snail mail so there are lots of records ( which I have a small collection of). The issue was always about his attitude and how unbearable it was, in a position of power enough to allow himself to flaunt it.

Hermans always wanted to discourage the other club  (CAB) members from having any litters and told people who enquired to wait til his club members had litters and/or sent people to another breed. In this case it was to Bearded Collie breeders…In essence he was making sure the pups from the enemy were not sold.

>>>>Of course YOU knew there were 2 clubs? ( my comment)

Further, the dogs from JCH club were not on the selection grid and his decisions were totally arbitrary.

She is hoping the SCC will react..

>>> There are lots of parallels to be drawn in this situation and not much has evolved in 30 years and everyone is involved. If you do not know who is who and who did what..how can any info you get, be true and trustworthy. Even the official breed clubs do not have a full deck of cards and mistreat or brush away vital facts about a breed you want to breed and know nothing about.

>>>Not a healthy situation. Or is it? Based on?

So, before you go anywhere, get the full story or ask questions to the right people and get facts. Just mho.

2 varieties in one breed: new and old

On the left, poofed out like a Bobtail, Jerry Sable des Malabris de Basse Sologne a very typical Re-incarnated Barbet Moderne( poodle type) and on the right, the Vieux Barbet portayed by Hercule di Barbochos Reiau de Prouvenco which is severely threatened with extinction.The Barbet is a rustic breed that should require only very little grooming. Photo taken in 1996.



The Barbet Moderne is very popular in several countries where they have managed to continue the line very well. It is not in need of survival..it’s a new breed, similar to the Labradoodle. There are a lot of fake truths circulating about the breed, which are terribly misleading.


Une race en perdition…. Feu le Barbet


It’s about Hercule di Barbochos Reiau de Prouvenco. With the breed club, he was almost in the same position as Ulysse is and has been, meaning banned. Hercule was a working dog. Had BCE and had done German tests.

When some indelicate breeders claim indelicately that some of their dogs are international working champions, there are none especially not in the Barbet since they are not allowed in any field trials. This is a good example and shows another level of…incompetence and lack of knowledge of a breed. Sadly so.

It says:

Heureux de retrouver un excellent barbet dont la race en France semble en perdition.
Ce sujet est( ?)  excellent? exposé dans son ensemble extérieur et son équilibre me rappelle les barbets
que m’ont fait connaitre les Pouchins, Fréville, Bazin et autres.

In English:
Happy to see an excellent barbet again of a breed in great distress.
This particular one shown is excellent overall and reminds me of the Barbets the following judges taught me to appreciate: Mr Poucin, Fréville, Bazin and others…

The above judges were basically all banned from judging any Barbets as the breed was replaced by a genepoodle of oodles.
Since 1994 to this date even moreso, the breed club is responsible for the decline of what was never promoted as a hunter and sold as a matted poofed tight curled ballerina-toed oodle, that has not any type of identity and can be confused/ mistaken for a Labradoodle, Spanish Water Dog or Poodle. Commonly now called a portuguse Poodle ( for the new colors on tall shaved dogs).
Sad fate for a dog caused by lack of any competence of the authorities who are supposed to “manage” it.

Experts and the likes…

cropped-Barbet_barbet_text_sm.jpg It is said by some new history experts that there is only one Barbet…

The one on the left is according to standard. The standard was modified several times so it would correspond to the Poodle type on the right.

The dog on the left still exists, but it is near extinction. The one on the right is rather rare, but as one says, needs to be vulgarisé, understrand make more and sell more. Nothing to do with selection but sales.

Have you seen ever the one on the right as a working gundog or “chien de chasse”?

More coming which you are going to really enjoy!

Puppy weights

An official veterinary thesis was written in 1991, by O. Chapusot, for the ECOLE NATIONALE VETERINAIRE D’ALFORT, in France. It dealt with the Barbet past ( 1930 ) and present. This means that the 2  lines were dealt with.

Among other items covered in the thesis was the weight of puppies.

It is, of course, very important to have documented weight curves and whenever possible, share them. Not much has been done to that effect other than what we manage to get ahold of once in a while. Most everything is kept hushhush for some unknown reasons.

In a club bulletin a few years ago,  a breeder  had published the weight curve of his litter. I believe that was the only time I have ever seen anything having to do with the subject since the weights given by Dr Vincenti of the Mas de la Chapelle kennel in the 30’s. This thesis used these weights and compared them to the Modern Barbet ( yes, it exists regardless of some sites claiming there is only one breed).

Finally today, through 2  completely different litters, I was able to pull out the document and check the veracity of the information.

Here you have a photo of 2 pups. One is from what I would like to call an “old” line and the other from a “modern” one. The composition of the litters relies mostly on what kennel names you want to work with or stay away from for various reasons.


The black pup is 8 weeks old and the brown one, 9. There is a 2-kilo difference between these 2 females. That is documented below in the chart.


When planning a litter, it is  vital to take all aspects of the stud or female ( I don’t use word bitch, because I don’t like it). This means the lineage, the size, the weight, the coat type, the morphology ( defects of the one or the other), not just 0% inbreeding as often is the case ( mixing oranges and apples) and how you can come out with something even better. I said absolutely nothing about breeding for color.

An “old” line female’s adult size would be 50-ish to great maximum 55cms. (some of the Griffon types with Chien de Crau are around 55)

A “modern” line female will size up to 61+ cms, with many around 58/59cms. They mostly have Poodle in the pedigree (some PWD) + Canaille de Verbaux (kennel) which, when selected only on curls ( tight/ frizzy) and known for very long legs with “lots of air between the legs” give us the dogs we very often see today.

Below is the weight curve of a litter in 2002. Tiboubou is Booly Wooly’s father. His weight at 2 months was 7 kilos. Son Booly Wooly’s was the same. Tiboubou is 64 cms. Booly Wooly is 59.5 and weighs 23kilos, about the same as his father. It was important to be able to follow up on this information years later to crosscheck it.


It will be extremely interesting to follow the growth of these 2 little girls and see if they fit the pattern. I think they will, what do you think? The male was about 7kilos.

If you are wondering why the breed club in France does nothing about the Barbet any more, wonder no more: there is “only” one type, because there is too much animosity among breeders to admit to 2 and secondly, they have very little information on the breed’s evolution historically and in the last 30 years.

Here is a link to another weight chart: http://barbety.pl/en/2013/08/26/monitoring-weights/